Talk:Alma Elma/@comment-189.10.185.34-20140129182217/@comment-4991168-20140202023032

Gardua Boy

Blah, we should probably just agree to disagree since we both seem to be misinterpreting at least part of what the other one says, but nevertheless.

"I was trying to point out that since most soldiers are weak / unskilled..." - the way I interpreted her entrance, she only bothers consuming people who actually go up and challenge her. That narrows at least vore to megalomaniac adventurers and Illias-crazied heroes.

''"Heck, she forfeits ALL her battles against Luka; there's nothing special about it to suggest she needs to rape or want to help Luka!" ''- From what I got about succubi characters, they, at least initially, have *great* troubles stopping themselves from acting on their lust (Sara, new succubi on the Purple Sabbath). Point I was making is : Alma Elma can rape Luka at any time they meet. She probably has an instinctive impulse to do so that differs a bit from human sex drive - Alice herself claims Luka smells delicious and stuff. She doesn't do it; she wouldn't even have to kill him if she didn't want to, but unless we assume she was well-fed at the time she probably exerts at least a little bit of willpower witholding such a fate from him. Now...

"Keep it simple: she's a moody, selfish and playful Succubus, period."- Precisely.

"I mean, "self-sacrifice"? What is she, a martyr now? (...)That's a human concept" - Maker/Greater Power XXY preserve.She's a moody, probably nymphomaniac, self-oriented, self-serving succubus that enjoys freedom the most. I was trying to look at certain things from the perspective a succubus may have; I'm assuming their desire to drain men may or may not outstrip any sex drives humans are actually capable of having. EXTREMELY MINOR as the exertion of willpower on the part compared to a human may be, Alma Elma probably goes against her basic instincts by 'training' Luka and letting him go every time instead of just doing what succubi do. It is "self sacrifice", in a sense, PRECISELY because she's ... all these things described above.

Compared to a 'martyr', it is a RIDICULOUSLY SMALL AND INSIGNIFICANT self sacrifice, but it's honestly more than you'd expect from that type of character. Granted, your interpretation of it may be utterly different.

"She plays and teases (which is different from teaching) the Hero, does nothing because it does not bother her and would take too much effort, if that counts as the "right thing at the right moment". - Let's see.

"Luka's already the strongest person other than me in this tournament:

- Let's do rough and tumble with him and make his penis go pewpewpew.

vs

- Let's see how he handles his wind... oh, that's bad... let's fix it... Okay, Luka-chan now can do something fun! I'll just give him this win."

Choosing the lower option would give bonus morality points for "striving towards self sacrifice" assuming Alma Elma is aware of the Orb in the queen's possesion. Same really applies to the final battle - Tamamo and Alma Elma semi-actively try to teach Luka something during their final fights, so he can preserve against Erubetie and Granberia who'll fight more seriously.

Now I'm going to enforce it one more time.  ''Everything Alma Elma does for coexistence and Luka is minor and simple things she can do and many people with power even smaller than her could probably do. She doesn't put in much true effort and her "self-sacrifice" and "attempts to bring about coexistence" are RIDICULOUSLY SMALL in comparison to what many other characters do. It's precisely because she's a nymphomaniac succubus flying obscenity that thinks mostly of fun (and herself) why I "Appreciate the little things". *If* you dig for the deeper meaning in her action, Alma Elma suddenly goes from "evil and self-serving" to "too radical in times of war and rather egoistical".''

=24.187.74.28= "I think Venithil's posts are pretty funny. He obviously has a hard on for the character and that's why he's so passionate in his defense." Gardua Boy's posts are rather thorough, so my responses are thorough. I'm honestly usually pretty longpostey when discussing something especially when someone responds with a little essay of their own. I like Alice, Erubetie or Nanabi way more in character or attraction terms BOTH than I like A.-E.

"There's really no way around her murdering people, and since when is raping someone okay?" - in the beggining of the game, monsters and humans overall hate each other and Alma Elma is never shown bothering to kill someone other than Luka and Hainuwele - and Alma Elma directly states a belief that if she doesn't act against humans that hate monsters with all of her capacity, they will treat monsters to the same fate. Her way is the wrong way, but do you really expect someone who believes the other side to be an enemy to just *always let the enemy go*? Alma Elma never killed anyone in the Colliseum after all. Heck, she's not even *known* other than as the "Kyuba" in the entire Grand Noah country, implying her villainy might've been limited to Illias and Natalia.

By no means is she totally excused, but I think you didn't exactly consider what the entire monster race was all about when talking about the rape part. And I think the issue is that while I'm trying to understand *monster impulses and war ethics of a multitude of races that need humans to breed and/or feed (off their semen)*, you're invariably using RL (and specific) morals to judge.

Alma Elma kills not because she needs to in order to survive, she does it because she wants to and has zero compassion or respect for humans. - She is in the wrong. But what are humans doing to earn her respect? Banning contacts with monsters, which means their extinction? Creating heroes who will pettily slay any minor monster they can and escape when something stronger than them comes along? Alma Elma is *at home in a city where monsters and humans coexist*. It's *outside* of this coexistence that she indulges in villainy - the subjects of it are invariably followers of Illias who are equally radical in their views as she is. Eye for an eye.

Not something I condone, but still.

''  But personally I've always been of the opinion that the very idea of co-existence is absolutely ridiculous and defies all common sense and logical reasoning of what is possible given the information the game itself relays. So I don't think Alma Elma is somehow worse than other monsters, I think they're all pretty evil.'' - You've missed around 80-85% of the non-porn part point of the game, then.